Curse

Destromath · Mar 26, 2008, 12:27 AM // 00:27

I've seen a lot of suggestions popping up saying to use 2-3 [skill=text]Searing Flames[/skill] Elementalist heroes. Here's my question: What is the point of using SF?

A while ago, I tested 3 SF Eles against the Master of Damage who were fully suited out with energy management and damage, as well as 3 Dual Attune Rodgort's Eles on him with 1-2 utility skills each. As expected, the SF heroes did more damage, but only by ~10 DPS and they still managed to run out of energy quickly. I know that SF has a large AoE, but is it really worth bringing it considering how much utility/energy it sacrifices?

While I'm on the topic of Fire Ele Heroes: Dual Attune or Mind Blast? Whenever I tried out Mind Blast on my hero(es), they never spam it as needed and manage to run out of energy half way through a fight, especially with Rodgort's or some other energy-draining spell that they would use right away.

EDIT: Sorry for the confusion, but I meant when using an Elementalist in Hard Mode. That, and having to go /Me for energy management doesn't really fit into my definition of flexible >_<.

xPIMPx · Mar 26, 2008, 12:31 AM // 00:31

I used to run 3 SF all the time when Nightfall came out and they never had any e-management problems. Now im often running 3 N/RT though im experimenting with R/P SPEAR + PETS FTW

Gift3d · Mar 26, 2008, 12:36 AM // 00:36

Hero + 15 energy, spammable skill = fail.

There is no discussion to be had, this is the only logical formula.

Tyla · Mar 26, 2008, 12:37 AM // 00:37

Because that, and Dual Attunement, is practically all heroes can run without falling into energy problems.

Heroes CAN NOT manage energy.

Molock · Mar 26, 2008, 12:40 AM // 00:40

Heroes fail massively at energy management..
Umm.. I wouldn't personnaly use elementalist heroes (other than a warder), try other damage sources. If you insist on bringing ele heroes, dual attunement

kobey · Mar 26, 2008, 01:04 AM // 01:04

In the past when I run SF on heros, i bring both [skill]power drain[/skill] and [skill]leech signet[/skill], along with attunement. They never had problems with energy and they have interrupts too

If its for NM, its a breeze and rather fast. But as for HM, i rather stick with other builds.

Destromath · Mar 26, 2008, 01:05 AM // 01:05

Okay, just checking XD. It just seems like 9/10 replies that are reccomending some sort of Fire Hero build are saying to use SF and I just didn't get why >_<.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

Because that, and Dual Attunement, is practically all heroes can run without falling into energy problems.

Heroes CAN NOT manage energy.

Sorry, I misworded that statement. What I meant to ask was that is there a shining difference that Mind Blast has over Elemental Attunement or vice versa? Or is it up to personal preference?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molock

Heroes fail massively at energy management..
Umm.. I wouldn't personnaly use elementalist heroes (other than a warder), try other damage sources. If you insist on bringing ele heroes, dual attunement

What exactly is there to deal damage with other than an Elementalist? I would definitely use other damage builds if there were better ones, but it seemed to me that other builds relied on some sort of gimmick that required 2-3 heroes to work (such as Racthoh's Order Spammer). The only build that stands out is the Minion Bomber, but I already use one of those whenever I take heroes along.

Just for the record, I use something like this most of the time whenever I'm H/Hing in an 8-man area:

[skill]Rodgort's Invocation[/skill][skill]Fireball[/skill][skill]Liquid Flame[/skill][skill]Glowing Gaze[/skill][skill]Weapon of Warding[/skill][skill]Fire Attunement[/skill][skill]Elemental Attunement[/skill][skill]Death Pact Signet[/skill]

[skill]Splinter Weapon[/skill][skill]Essence Strike[/skill][skill]Mend Body and Soul[/skill][skill]Spirit Light[/skill][skill]Offering of Spirit[/skill][skill]Protective Was Kaolai[/skill][skill]Life[/skill][skill]Death Pact Signet[/skill]
(Rit instead of N/Rt just because I love 14 spec Splinter Weapon XD)

[skill]Jagged Bones[/skill][skill]Animate Bone Minions[/skill][skill]Death Nova[/skill][skill]Protective Spirit[/skill][skill]Aegis[/skill][skill]Extinguish[/skill][skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

P.S. Although I almost never do HM, I prefer to have my builds be able to work well in it just for the sake of it.

angmar_nite · Mar 26, 2008, 01:19 AM // 01:19

Mind blast is more flexible and more reliable.

Coloneh · Mar 26, 2008, 01:52 AM // 01:52

mind blast is better and usually recommended on these forums. i dont know what youve been reading.

Tyla · Mar 26, 2008, 01:58 AM // 01:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destromath

Sorry, I misworded that statement. What I meant to ask was that is there a shining difference that Mind Blast has over Elemental Attunement or vice versa? Or is it up to personal preference?

Elemental Attunement can be stripped.
Mind Blast can't, is spammable, deals a little damage and is a strong asset in energy management which can allow things like Blinding Flash to be put on your bar and still be able to use it.

The only problem is heroes can't use Mind Blast as an energy management skill, and ONLY use it for damage.

madriel222 · Mar 26, 2008, 02:02 AM // 02:02

My heroes successfully use SF and rarely go below 50% energy. Aside from Fire Attunement, they use Auspicious Incantation and Glowing Gaze remarkably well to keep their energy reserves high.

Nyktos · Mar 26, 2008, 02:23 AM // 02:23

Heroes phail at Rodgorts spamming. If you dislike microing, you have to run SF, or no ele heroes, or be content with the fact that they aren't using their build to its full potential. Mind Blast is better for players by far, but I prefer Dual Attune for heroes.

Sab · Mar 26, 2008, 02:49 AM // 02:49

Heroes are really bad at Mind Blast - they use it like a normal fire skill instead of energy management. If a human MB Ele ran low on energy, he'd switch to high set and Mind Blast until he's full. A hero would just spam all his skills and it would be down to pure luck if he has any energy when the battle's over.

Dual Attunes or Searing Flames for heroes, Mind Blast for human players.

blue.rellik · Mar 26, 2008, 03:22 AM // 03:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by angmar_nite

Mind blast is more flexible and more reliable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

mind blast is better and usually recommended on these forums. i dont know what youve been reading.

Hey guys, did you not notice the heroes in the title? Guess what that means?

I did something similar to what Kobey did, I gave my ele heroes pdrain and leech signet to help with energy as well as deal with any troublesome casters. It worked pretty well, they were able to keep SFing longer as well as take out any spells that could be troublesome (meteor is a common one in NF)

shru · Mar 26, 2008, 03:52 AM // 03:52

Up untill I found some great hybrid/utility builds, power drain and leech signet never left any of my hero's bars, they're just too useful with the AI's omnicient presence.
Before I started doing HM, I brought two SF heros with me nearly everywhere I went. It's one of the only skills mindless enough that heros have trouble screwing up. Just stick glowing gaze, SF, fire attune, p-drain, L-sig, res sig, glyph of ele power, and you'll have one free slot left (I used to stick mark on one and MS on the other.)
While these builds are still no where as effective as some other options, it's hard to go wrong in NM and this is one of the better choices if you feel the need for ele heros.

Ensign · Mar 26, 2008, 05:01 AM // 05:01

I run either Searing Flames or Savannah Heat on heroes. They just spam skills anyway so give them things that are fire and forget. Be sure to give them piles and piles of emanagement, attunement, glyph, and probably Glowing Gaze or PDrain as well. You need it all.

Mind Blast can work with Glyph and Attune, but it's so unreliable (they latch onto an ele and are just done); once you put the 3rd emanagement skill on there the Mind Blast becomes redundant.

Antithesis · Mar 26, 2008, 05:10 AM // 05:10

[skill]Searing Flames[/skill][skill]Glowing Gaze[/skill][skill]Power Drain[/skill][skill]Leech Signet[/skill][skill]Fire Attunement[/skill][skill]Aura of Restoration[/skill][skill]Glyph of Lesser Energy[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

A Searing Flames bar doesn't get simpler than that. The objective is solely to spam SF, so make it easy for the hero AI to do it. Energy management should not be a problem. Liquid Flame can be subbed in for AoR, but it's not needed.

Yes the bar has a narrow scope and no utility, but 2 or 3 of these will still clean up NM. For greater utility go Dual Attunement + Rodgort's Invocation and spec into Earth for Wards or /Rt for Channeling or Restoration.

Stolen Souls · Mar 26, 2008, 11:44 AM // 11:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antithesis

[skill]Searing Flames[/skill][skill]Glowing Gaze[/skill][skill]Power Drain[/skill][skill]Leech Signet[/skill][skill]Fire Attunement[/skill][skill]Aura of Restoration[/skill][skill]Glyph of Lesser Energy[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

A Searing Flames bar doesn't get simpler than that. The objective is solely to spam SF, so make it easy for the hero AI to do it. Energy management should not be a problem. Liquid Flame can be subbed in for AoR, but it's not needed.

Yes the bar has a narrow scope and no utility, but 2 or 3 of these will still clean up NM. For greater utility go Dual Attunement + Rodgort's Invocation and spec into Earth for Wards or /Rt for Channeling or Restoration.

^^same bar my SF eles use, with AoR being subbed with whatever I happen to need at the moment. All an SF ele needs to do, is spam SF and Glowing Gaze. By limiting the ele's choices like that, they really have no choice but to manage their energy. The problem most people have with their SF eles, is that they give them a bar like this:

[skill]Mark of Rodgort[/skill][skill]Searing Flames[/skill][skill]Glowing Gaze[/skill][skill]Liquid Flame[/skill][skill]Glyph of Lesser Energy[/skill][skill]Meteor Shower[/skill][skill]Fire Attunement[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

...and then wonder why they have problems.

upier · Mar 26, 2008, 12:00 PM // 12:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antithesis

[skill]Searing Flames[/skill][skill]Glowing Gaze[/skill][skill]Power Drain[/skill][skill]Leech Signet[/skill][skill]Fire Attunement[/skill][skill]Aura of Restoration[/skill][skill]Glyph of Lesser Energy[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

We do know that a hero will look at PDrain/LSignet and think "Looky here! An interrupt!" rather then "Looky here! An interrupt that MANAGES energy!" right?

I used to run PD on my monky since the energy gain is sweet and it's a fail proof interrupt on heroes.
That was until I saw that this was my heroes opening move.

GG is also an issue because that's the eles opening move. BUT it's much more spammable so it's better.

So my SF eles (when I use them - which is rare outside of starting areas) - mostly run JUST SF with GG and a few protection spells - Aegis, Hex/Condition removal (and ele e-management of course!). Because you basically just want them to spam SF.

Stolen Souls · Mar 26, 2008, 12:05 PM // 12:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

We do know that a hero will look at PDrain/LSignet and think "Looky here! An interrupt!" rather then "Looky here! An interrupt that MANAGES energy!" right?

Of course. But....does that matter? As I said, it "forces" the hero to manage their energy, in addition to being an interrupt, which the heros have godly reflexes for. Interrupts, protection/anti hex spells, whatever the situation calls for. Just please, for the love of god, don't fill an SF's bar with offensive fire spells then wonder where their energy is going. ><